arewexlibreyet.md

Are we XLibre yet?

X11 has been, and still is, a vital piece of technology at the core of professional Unix-like workstations since decades. It has a proven track record of supporting enterprise-grade applications with long-term protocol stability and platform compatibility. It has matured over decades. XLibre is an actively developed fork of the X.Org X11 server, initiated by the most active X.Org developer and supported by the open source community.

An incompatible alternative, Wayland, is being aggressively pushed by IBM = Red Hat = Gnome = Fedora = freedesktop.org. However, it is not ready to succeed X11 as it its governance model leads to never-ending discussions and prevents even the most essential functionality from existing. Think twice before abandoning Xorg. Wayland breaks everything!

It is time that the open source community reclaims what was ours to begin with. This page lists distributions supporting XLibre so that you can make an informed choice.

--> Table has moved to https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/wiki/Are-We-XLibre-Yet%3F <--

more people need to know something was wrong

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

please return to the current discussion... this is out of nowhere

No it isn't, I was focusing on the technology. You are not entitled to have the monopoly on speech here. You do not have to respond if you do not want to.

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

Can't you add it directly? Everyone with a GitHub account can modify it, unless it have been changed since I was able to update it.

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

Worth noting, SDDM is expected to be replaced within KDE with its own home-brew Login Manager soon (they reckon 6.5 but I don't see it happening before 6.6 at least), and just about all people who tend to use SDDM are those running KDE. With that in mind, it is uncertain whether there will be motivation to continue maintaining SDDM, or how it will be maintained. Probably may still be maintained as a desktop-agnostic display manager. That said, if it works with X.org then it should work with Xlibre anyway for the time being.
There is also slim/slimski for X11 environments. I am not sure if they support any Wayland sessions as I haven't tested that scenario myself.

Why would they replace sddm? That makes zero sense. Consider sddm replaced kdm not too long ago, you'd think they'd be satisfied.

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

Can't you add it directly? Everyone with a GitHub account can modify it, unless it have been changed since I was able to update it.

It has been changed after the vandalism attempts by Ubuntu and Debian staff.

I have added SDDM a long time ago as "works".

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

Can't you add it directly? Everyone with a GitHub account can modify it, unless it have been changed since I was able to update it.

It has been changed after the vandalism attempts by Ubuntu and Debian staff.

Yes, unfortunately those bad actors have yet to be properly dealt with.

@darkhog

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

Can't you add it directly? Everyone with a GitHub account can modify it, unless it have been changed since I was able to update it.

It has been changed after the vandalism attempts by Ubuntu and Debian staff.

AFAIK the XLibre wiki is still open for everyone to edit. See Locking the Wiki page · X11Libre · Discussion #176. Locking it down was requested but we kept it open. If you cannot edit it then please tell me.

I see. Thought it was closed so I didn't even try.

It is open still, but under more scrutiny AFAIK. Also the incident was reported to GitHub as well as it was considered a violation of the ToS.

Quoting a post on the Reddit thread KDE is planned to be included on the FreeBSD 15 Installer : r/kde:

you can keep using plasma 6's xorg session on debian trixie until 2030, and possibly on debian forky until 2032, so i'd say that's plenty of time for anyone wanting to stay on xorg. and on gnome you can have xorg until 2036 with ubuntu 24.04.

So no matter what some loonatics here want us to believe, X11 will be around for quite some time.

Quoting a post on the Reddit thread KDE is planned to be included on the FreeBSD 15 Installer : r/kde:

you can keep using plasma 6's xorg session on debian trixie until 2030, and possibly on debian forky until 2032, so i'd say that's plenty of time for anyone wanting to stay on xorg. and on gnome you can have xorg until 2036 with ubuntu 24.04.

So no matter what some loonatics here want us to believe, X11 will be around for quite some time.

but on linux (i am not on bsd) most big DE (like GNOME and KDE) and Distro (like Fedora and Ubuntu) are moving to wayland as the future

I'd suggest splitting "No support" category into one where the maintainers do the "wait and see approach" or are waiting for Xlibre to reach certain technical milestones, and the one for hostile distros for no reason (other than political one) like alpine or antix, where the technical reasons are just an excuse to not include it.

I could do that myself, but I don't have enough time to do it.

[...] or antix, where the technical reasons are just an excuse to not include it.

You meant NixOS, no?

I'd suggest splitting "No support" category into one where the maintainers do the "wait and see approach" or are waiting for Xlibre to reach certain technical milestones, and the one for hostile distros for no reason (other than political one) like alpine or antix, where the technical reasons are just an excuse to not include it.

There is already the distinction between "wait and see" found under the heading "Unclear" and the "No support" section with the introduction:

The maintainers of the distribution expressed concerns about packaging XLibre, do not want to add it or removed X11.

To me this is all what is interesting for the XLibre users. If one further likes to drill down for the reasons there is the "Remarks" column in each table.

you can have xorg until 2036 with ubuntu 24.04

And by 2036, Wayland will be deemed "too old" and they will write an incompatible "Wayland 2" which will be more restrictive. Mark my words. Just look at Gtk.

you can have xorg until 2036 with ubuntu 24.04

And by 2036, Wayland will be deemed "too old" and they will write an incompatible "Wayland 2" which is more restrictive. Mark my words. Just look at Gtk.

No, by that time we'll have DirectFBX which will replace X and Wayland both, incorporate uwuisms, have My Little Pony as a mascot, and run off libbronie exclusively.

you can have xorg until 2036 with ubuntu 24.04

And by 2036, Wayland will be deemed "too old" and they will write an incompatible "Wayland 2" which is more restrictive. Mark my words. Just look at Gtk.

i hope you are wrong , cause wayland is already way tooo much restrictive...

you can have xorg until 2036 with ubuntu 24.04

And by 2036, Wayland will be deemed "too old" and they will write an incompatible "Wayland 2" which is more restrictive. Mark my words. Just look at Gtk.

No, by that time we'll have DirectFBX which will replace X and Wayland both, incorporate uwuisms, have My Little Pony as a mascot, and run off libbronie exclusively.

so a display server made by people with unstable mental health and infected by the woke mind virus ?

if you are right, then xlibre is the only place for mentally stable and unawake people ...

gg men

if you are right, then xlibre is the only place for mentally stable and unawake people ...

At least we're not sheeple.

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

IceWM already stated they will never support Wayland.

For those maintaining the wiki table: SDDM should be marked as "works". I use SDDM to start an X11 sessions all the time, even for environments unlikely to get a wayland support like IceWM and TDM.

IceWM already stated they will never support Wayland.

That's what I've heard too, but you never know. People change their minds all the time for all sorts of reasons. Hopefully they will support X11 for as long as possible. By the way, are you aware of any GUI IceWM configurator that allows you to change settings you normally need to edit config files for?

Hopefully they will support X11 for as long as possible.

I think by then Xorg will be long gone and XLibre and the OpenBSD port will be the only 2 X11 implementations.

By the way, are you aware of any GUI IceWM configurator that allows you to change settings you normally need to edit config files for?

There is such a tool? That would be helpful, as it is annoying for me to manually edit my dotfiles for icewm.

I was asking you. I guess I will have to write one eventually, probably after finishing TuWiM and a configurator for TWM, which I write for the worst case scenario of all the other WMs and DEs abandoning X11 completely (and there's no chance in hell TWM will be ported to Wayland on account of a) no longer being worked on and b) being so intertwined with Xorg as to be shipped along with it as a default in certain distros).

I was asking you. I guess I will have to write one eventually, probably after finishing TuWiM and a configurator for TWM, which I write for the worst case scenario of all the other WMs and DEs abandoning X11 completely (and there's no chance in hell TWM will be ported to Wayland on account of a) no longer being worked on and b) being so intertwined with Xorg as to be shipped along with it as a default in certain distros).

why do you want a GUI???

and they probably already exist

why do you want a GUI???

The IceWM manual is nice but I wish there was a GUI for the config.

from what ive seen, gitea focuses on self-hosting, maybe we could make the xlibre repos on github mirrors to ones on gitea? to prevent any sudden vanishing of the project.

awesome idea !

Or check out Code.NoLog.CZ