arewexlibreyet.md

Are we XLibre yet?

X11 has been, and still is, a vital piece of technology at the core of professional Unix-like workstations since decades. It has a proven track record of supporting enterprise-grade applications with long-term protocol stability and platform compatibility. It has matured over decades. XLibre is an actively developed fork of the X.Org X11 server, initiated by the most active X.Org developer and supported by the open source community.

An incompatible alternative, Wayland, is being aggressively pushed by IBM = Red Hat = Gnome = Fedora = freedesktop.org. However, it is not ready to succeed X11 as it its governance model leads to never-ending discussions and prevents even the most essential functionality from existing. Think twice before abandoning Xorg. Wayland breaks everything!

It is time that the open source community reclaims what was ours to begin with. This page lists distributions supporting XLibre so that you can make an informed choice.

--> Table has moved to https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/wiki/Are-We-XLibre-Yet%3F <--

Please comment below in case something should be added/changed.

keeping politics out of software is the entire damn point of this project

In their mind:
Keeping politics out by abandon DEI policy AND inviting all the people to join the project
equals to
A fake move to gain people support and the purpose is to bring politics in to the project against DEI.

In their mind, everything is politics, even you don't even speak out, you are also a part of politics in favor of the opposite.
https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/merge_requests/86092
Chat log provided by alpine leadership:
https://irclogs.alpinelinux.org/%23alpine-devel-2025-06.log

"I know that a lot of people think that you can be apolitical in technology, but refusing to engage with politics is de facto supporting the status quo, which is a political position."

Feel free to replace "technology" in the above sentence with any words.
Everything is politics in their mind. This is so lame.

They are so keen on "against the system" but now the ARE definitely "THE system" adopted by Big Tech, but still use this narrative to mobilize people.

To me those people action are already against the free and open source movement philosophy, especially the "free" part, which is the most important part. That's exactly what big tech want.

It can be seen by the action they they are not making a copyleft DEI licence to let the developers choose and build their own DEI software world, but instead choose to invade FOSS world by using Code of Conduct and their positional power to punish people in the FOSS world.

Activism has plagued FOSS for a while new. Look at what they did to one of the wlroots developers over a political stance.

Cancel culture has been nothing but a tool to exclude people because they have "wrong think" according to the liberal left. In truth, Orwell would have laughed because Cancel Culture is straight out of Big Brother's weaponization of society against itself in his book 1984.

Activism has plagued FOSS for a while new. Look at what they did to one of the wlroots developers over a political stance.

Cancel culture has been nothing but a tool to exclude people because they have "wrong think" according to the liberal left. In truth, Orwell would have laughed because Cancel Culture is straight out of Big Brother's weaponization of society against itself in his book 1984.

do we still have a positive future possible according to you?

I call that the "domestic violence stance." Basically, if you do nothing about the husband beating the wife, you're allowing it to happen. IMO, its a straw man argument. Unfortunately, it's plaguing everything. Not everything needs to be an activist moment. They were all the kids who were awkward, picked on, and ignored growing up. Sadly, they never grew up.

…

On Mon, 2025-06-30 at 20:45 -0700, affhp wrote: @affhp commented on this gist. > keeping politics out of software is the entire damn point of this > project In their mind: Keeping politics out by abandon DEI policy AND inviting all the people to join the projectA fake move to gain people support and the purpose is to bring politics in to the project against DEI. In their mind, everything is politics, even you don't even speak out, you are also a part of politics in favor of the opposite. https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/aports/-/merge_requests/86092 > "I know that a lot of people think that you can be apolitical in > technology, but refusing to engage with politics is de facto > supporting the status quo, which is a political position." It is pretty lame — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub or unsubscribe. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS or Android.                                                            

The "domestic violence stance" metaphor is problematic. In my experience any attempt to intervene will almost always incur the wrath of both of them. I try to mind my own business. Sometimes I fail. Usually when children or dogs are involved.

There exist ideologies, which by their very definitions cannot leave you alone. Leaving them alone, is not a viable strategy for avoiding them, unless you can effectively hide from them, which usually precludes coordinating with others.

Activism has plagued FOSS for a while new. Look at what they did to one of the wlroots developers over a political stance.
Cancel culture has been nothing but a tool to exclude people because they have "wrong think" according to the liberal left. In truth, Orwell would have laughed because Cancel Culture is straight out of Big Brother's weaponization of society against itself in his book 1984.

do we still have a positive future possible according to you?

If people will let personal stuff just be personal stuff and not badger and harass people over their own personal beliefs and stances, (aka STAY IN YOUR LANE) and just let the software and development effort speak for itself, then we will have a good positive future. The only person being a victim and being offended by anything is the person looking to be offended and be a victim.

If someone is antivax and that's their belief, then who am I to tell them they're wrong? I'm responsible vax minded, but not antivax, so what someone believes is their choice. Not mine. They have their own personal responsibilities to deal with, and it's none of my business.

That's not political at all either. It's just common sense.

I mean honestly think about this...

@xgui4 if you like hamburgers and I hate hamburgers, is it any of my business to belittle, badger, and harass you into not eating hamburgers? No.

I'm getting more input from LinuxFromScratch and some of the people are want to keep X11, such as those using minimalist window managers. I would out LFS in the Maybe pile.

Gotta love me a good old "No politics in FOSS" followed by various political discussions

Gotta love me a good old "No politics in FOSS" followed by various political discussions

yeah...

Gotta love me a good old "No politics in FOSS" followed by various political discussions

I remember when they have ruined own main communication tool (Freenode IRC network) just because they've found out that one of admins is korean.

I remember when they have ruined own main communication tool (Freenode IRC network) just because they've found out that one of admins is korean.

who are they?

I remember when they have ruined own main communication tool (Freenode IRC network) just because they've found out that one of admins is korean.

Wow, do people actually believe this? Like, this is impressively far off the truth, gotta hand out points for creativity here

Gotta love me a good old "No politics in FOSS" followed by various political discussions

yeah...

I hope the inclusion process of non political software like xlibre into various kind of distro is also non political.
But it is up to the distro maintainers, not xlibre maintainers.

I remember when they have ruined own main communication tool (Freenode IRC network) just because they've found out that one of admins is korean.

Wow, do people actually believe this? Like, this is impressively far off the truth, gotta hand out points for creativity here

This is the difference between me and you. You have some beliefs that contradict with knowledge that I have. I live in real world, you live in hatred propaganda.

I hope the inclusion process of non political software like xlibre into various kind of distro is also non political. But it is up to the distro maintainers, not xlibre maintainers.

some distros are doing it well, and others... well. the alpine situation.

This is the difference between me and you. You have some beliefs that contradict with knowledge that I have. I live in real world, you live in hatred propaganda.

reading this feels like a twitter argument, "im right and youre wrong"

I remember when they have ruined own main communication tool (Freenode IRC network) just because they've found out that one of admins is korean.

who have banned what ?

I'm thankful for this list. I just freed up quite a bit of space on my Ventoy drive.

Gotta love me a good old "No politics in FOSS" followed by various political discussions

Indeed.

This is the difference between me and you. You have some beliefs that contradict with knowledge that I have. I live in real world, you live in hatred propaganda.

reading this feels like a twitter argument, "im right and youre wrong"

WE need to do better to not further this. This is exactly what we're trying to avoid because shit like this is just bullshit that gets in the way of the mission. Mind you, this is NOT against you. You didn't do anything. It's just to illustrate that your observation is exactly what we're trying to avoid here.

Agreed, more coding, less talking.

Alpine should be marked as hostile for xlibre, as one the dev in alpine will apparently issue a "coc violation" of anyone who want to port xlibre to alpine for "political reason"

@probonopd Could be of interest as well: Migration to Xlibre | Stormux - The accessible Linux distribution for the Raspberry Pi 4 and 5 . Took a quick look but couldn't find any XLibre packages for now.

Ps. The maintainer is on the XLibre mailing list. [xlibre] Re: Specifying Screen Drivers - xlibre - FreeLists

Nice.

Xlibre is getting out there and I have a feeling people sre starting tonsee the ongoing problems of wayland that have been "swept under the rug".

Well the rug is at the ceiling and the pile of crap under the rug isn't going away.

Alpine should be marked as hostile for xlibre, as one the dev in alpine will apparently issue a "coc violation" of anyone who want to port xlibre to alpine for "political reason"

Alpine is a niche distribution anyway with a small user base. He can issue CoC violations all he wants. The maintainer of Alpine should go and read the ToS of the host site he uses and see the section about abuse of ToS by means of CoC misuse and using discrimination.

6.1. You represent and warrant that: (i) your use of the Website will be in strict accordance with this Agreement and with all applicable laws and regulations (including without limitation any local laws or regulations in your country, state, city, or other governmental area, regarding online conduct and acceptable content, and including all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside); and (ii) your use of the Website will not infringe or misappropriate the intellectual property rights of any third party.

10.4. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of California, U.S.A., and the parties submit to the jurisdiction of the State and Federal courts in San Francisco, California, without giving effect to any conflicts of laws principles.

California has anti-discrimination laws. GitLab is based in CA and Alpine Linux using a falsified CoC to exclude people for political reasons can be seen as breaking the anti-discrimination laws.

Alpine should be marked as hostile for xlibre, as one the dev in alpine will apparently issue a "coc violation" of anyone who want to port xlibre to alpine for "political reason"

Alpine is a niche distribution anyway with a small user base. He can issue CoC violations all he wants. The maintainer of Alpine should go and read the ToS of the host site he uses and see the section about abuse of ToS by means of CoC misuse and using discrimination.

6.1. You represent and warrant that: (i) your use of the Website will be in strict accordance with this Agreement and with all applicable laws and regulations (including without limitation any local laws or regulations in your country, state, city, or other governmental area, regarding online conduct and acceptable content, and including all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside); and (ii) your use of the Website will not infringe or misappropriate the intellectual property rights of any third party.

10.4. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of California, U.S.A., and the parties submit to the jurisdiction of the State and Federal courts in San Francisco, California, without giving effect to any conflicts of laws principles.

California has anti-discrimination laws. GitLab is based in CA and Alpine Linux using a falsified CoC to exclude people for political reasons can be seen as breaking the anti-discrimination laws.

Considering they wouldn't think twice about it. how about reporting the violation if it happens?

Alpine should be marked as hostile for xlibre, as one the dev in alpine will apparently issue a "coc violation" of anyone who want to port xlibre to alpine for "political reason"

Alpine is a niche distribution anyway with a small user base. He can issue CoC violations all he wants. The maintainer of Alpine should go and read the ToS of the host site he uses and see the section about abuse of ToS by means of CoC misuse and using discrimination.
6.1. You represent and warrant that: (i) your use of the Website will be in strict accordance with this Agreement and with all applicable laws and regulations (including without limitation any local laws or regulations in your country, state, city, or other governmental area, regarding online conduct and acceptable content, and including all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside); and (ii) your use of the Website will not infringe or misappropriate the intellectual property rights of any third party.
10.4. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of California, U.S.A., and the parties submit to the jurisdiction of the State and Federal courts in San Francisco, California, without giving effect to any conflicts of laws principles.
California has anti-discrimination laws. GitLab is based in CA and Alpine Linux using a falsified CoC to exclude people for political reasons can be seen as breaking the anti-discrimination laws.

Considering they wouldn't think twice about it. how about reporting the violation if it happens?

ok , but still mark it as hostile for letting people know to avoid this distribution if they want to use xlibre ?

I agree. They are openly hostile and should be marked as such. Trying to beat them at their own game just means lawyers get involved. It’s both cheaper and more time efficient to just not deal with hypotheticals at this point.

…

________________________________ From: Xgui4 Studio ***@***.***> Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2025 3:48:30 PM To: xgui4 ***@***.***> Cc: Comment ***@***.***> Subject: Re: probonopd/arewexlibreyet.md @xgui4 commented on this gist.

________________________________ Alpine should be marked as hostile for xlibre, as one the dev in alpine will apparently issue a "coc violation" of anyone who want to port xlibre to alpine for "political reason" Alpine is a niche distribution anyway with a small user base. He can issue CoC violations all he wants. The maintainer of Alpine should go and read the ToS of the host site he uses and see the section about abuse of ToS by means of CoC misuse and using discrimination. 6.1. You represent and warrant that: (i) your use of the Website will be in strict accordance with this Agreement and with all applicable laws and regulations (including without limitation any local laws or regulations in your country, state, city, or other governmental area, regarding online conduct and acceptable content, and including all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside); and (ii) your use of the Website will not infringe or misappropriate the intellectual property rights of any third party. 10.4. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of California, U.S.A., and the parties submit to the jurisdiction of the State and Federal courts in San Francisco, California, without giving effect to any conflicts of laws principles. California has anti-discrimination laws. GitLab is based in CA and Alpine Linux using a falsified CoC to exclude people for political reasons can be seen as breaking the anti-discrimination laws. Considering they wouldn't think twice about it. how about reporting the violation if it happens? ok , but still mark it as hostile for letting people know to avoid this distribution if they want to use xlibre ? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://gist.github.com/probonopd/301319568a554abe7426c02eb5e19b5a#gistcomment-5660466> or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AZDUTMYUVCRB7HAUTJ2OY6T3GWXL7BFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDUOJ2WLJDOMFWWLO3UNBZGKYLEL5YGC4TUNFRWS4DBNZ2F6YLDORUXM2LUPGBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTGOJQGIZTGOBSU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF>. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675> or Android<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub>.

I agree. They are openly hostile and should be marked as such. Trying to beat them at their own game just means lawyers get involved. It’s both cheaper and more time efficient to just not deal with hypotheticals at this point.
…
________________________________ From: Xgui4 Studio @.> Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2025 3:48:30 PM To: xgui4 @.> Cc: Comment @.***> Subject: Re: probonopd/arewexlibreyet.md @xgui4 commented on this gist.
________________________________ Alpine should be marked as hostile for xlibre, as one the dev in alpine will apparently issue a "coc violation" of anyone who want to port xlibre to alpine for "political reason" Alpine is a niche distribution anyway with a small user base. He can issue CoC violations all he wants. The maintainer of Alpine should go and read the ToS of the host site he uses and see the section about abuse of ToS by means of CoC misuse and using discrimination. 6.1. You represent and warrant that: (i) your use of the Website will be in strict accordance with this Agreement and with all applicable laws and regulations (including without limitation any local laws or regulations in your country, state, city, or other governmental area, regarding online conduct and acceptable content, and including all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside); and (ii) your use of the Website will not infringe or misappropriate the intellectual property rights of any third party. 10.4. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of California, U.S.A., and the parties submit to the jurisdiction of the State and Federal courts in San Francisco, California, without giving effect to any conflicts of laws principles. California has anti-discrimination laws. GitLab is based in CA and Alpine Linux using a falsified CoC to exclude people for political reasons can be seen as breaking the anti-discrimination laws. Considering they wouldn't think twice about it. how about reporting the violation if it happens? ok , but still mark it as hostile for letting people know to avoid this distribution if they want to use xlibre ? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://gist.github.com/probonopd/301319568a554abe7426c02eb5e19b5a#gistcomment-5660466 or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AZDUTMYUVCRB7HAUTJ2OY6T3GWXL7BFKMF2HI4TJMJ2XIZLTSKBKK5TBNR2WLJDUOJ2WLJDOMFWWLO3UNBZGKYLEL5YGC4TUNFRWS4DBNZ2F6YLDORUXM2LUPGBKK5TBNR2WLJDHNFZXJJDOMFWWLK3UNBZGKYLEL52HS4DFVRZXKYTKMVRXIX3UPFYGLK2HNFZXIQ3PNVWWK3TUUZ2G64DJMNZZDAVEOR4XAZNEM5UXG5FFOZQWY5LFVEYTGOJQGIZTGOBSU52HE2LHM5SXFJTDOJSWC5DF. You are receiving this email because you commented on the thread. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOShttps://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Androidhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

I agree. Let them play FAFO but equally, I would bring it up on their discussions and requests and if they try to CoC you, report them to GitLab. Easy.

No need for lawyers. Just report them for ToS violations.